Nutrition Across Life Stages: From Piglets to Kids

Join us on "Coffee in the Barn" for a groundbreaking episode where the worlds of agriculture and human nutrition intersect. Hosts Casey and Morgan, alongside guest expert Dr. Mariana Boscato Menegat, delve deep into the concept of phase feeding. Discover the science behind tailored nutrition plans that cater to the evolving needs of pigs from birth through maturity, and how these principles can surprisingly parallel human nutritional requirements from infancy into adulthood.

This episode unpacks the complexities of nutritional science, offering insights into the formulation of diets that promote optimal health and growth at every life stage. We explore the challenges of developing palatable yet nutrient-rich meals for both pigs and people, highlighting the importance of understanding digestive systems and metabolic rates. Listen as Mariana shares her extensive knowledge on swine nutrition, shedding light on the parallels between managing pig diets and crafting balanced meals for children and adults.

Beyond the science, "Coffee in the Barn" brings personal stories to the table. Our hosts and guests share their experiences with nutritional planning, offering tips for parents and animal caregivers alike. From amusing tales of picky eaters to discussions on the impact of diet on behavior and health, this episode is packed with anecdotes that resonate with anyone responsible for feeding others, whether two-legged or four.

But that's not all—by supporting "Coffee in the Barn," you get exclusive access to behind-the-scenes content, bonus episodes, and deep dives into topics we barely scratch the surface of in our regular episodes. Your support helps us bring more experts like Mariana onto the show and delve even deeper into the fascinating world of nutrition, agriculture, and so much more.

So pour yourself a cup of coffee and settle in for an episode that nourishes the mind as much as the body. Whether you're a parent, a farmer, or just someone curious about the science of food, "Nutrition Across Life Stages: From Piglets to Kids" offers something for everyone. Support us today, and let's embark on this journey of discovery and learning together.

Transcript

Morgan Hart
 0:00:00
 From boardroom meetings to bedtime stories, Coffee in the Barn explores the delicate dance of balancing the demands of our professional lives with the joys and responsibilities of being moms. Join us each week as we discuss the latest trends in agribusiness, share insightful interviews with industry experts, and sprinkle in some heartfelt anecdotes about the humorous and heartwarming moments that come with being a working mom in agriculture. 

Welcome back to Coffee in the Barn with Casey and Morgan. We have a special guest today with us, Mariana Menegat, who is a swine nutritionist with Holden Farms. I have the pleasure of working with her husband at Hubbard Feeds. But today, Mariana is going to help kind of explain phase feeding and how we feed pigs and animals in general and how we formulate diets for animals based on stages of production and specific key features of each phase. And so with that, Mariana, welcome.

Mariana Menegat
 0:01:02
 Thank you very much. Thank you for having me on. I think this is a very interesting topic and pretty much that's how we start as a nutritionist, right? figuring out how many diets you're going to feed and what they're going to look like. And phase feeding is basically how we manage the feeding program to feed pigs and meet their needs in terms of nutrient requirements along their lives in their stages of production, right? So I'm happy to talk about that. 

Morgan Hart

Yeah, so could you just kind of highlight for those that aren't necessarily in agriculture, what does phase feeding mean? 

Mariana Menegat

So basically, when we think about a pig, the pig is growing, so their needs are changing, right? So we have to formulate a diet and come up with a feeding program that would kind of meet their needs as they keep growing. One of the main things that change as pigs grow is their feed intake or the consumption of feed. So right after they're weaned, they are eating very little, like a quarter of a pound, half a pound per day. And by the time they reach market weight, they're eating over seven pounds. So in the six months of life, they basically increase their consumption by 20 or 30-fold, which is impressive. So what we can do in our formulation is to feed them in phases where we can decrease our nutrient density, energy density of the diet, because they are making up with consumption, right?
 0:02:45
 These two are getting what they need, but they are making it up on consumption. And that's not very different than thinking about babies and kids. So when we have a baby, we try to pack as much nutrient, as much energy in one spoonful, one bite, one bottle, because that's all they're gonna eat. But as they keep growing, they keep eating more, so we can decrease that density of the diet, because they're gonna make up for it when they eat more, more times and more volume of feed, right?

0:03:17
 It's the same principle. So that's one thing that changes is the amount of feed that the animals are eating. But the other thing that changes is their preferences. So we can change the ingredients as they grow based on their preferences. So when the pig is really young, they're gonna have a preference for milk, right? Because that's where they've been. They've been with their sows for 21 to 28 days, and their guts are ready to use milk proteins and lactose.
 0:03:54
 When we wean them from the sow and we start giving them food, we have to use a high milk density diet. So they can have the taste of milk, but also all the highly digestible ingredients that are based on the milk diet, right? And then as they keep growing, then their taste preference will change because also their enzymes are changing. So we can move them into a corn soy diet, which is a simpler diet that would be the vast majority of our pigs are on a corn soybean meal diet in the US. That is not very different from us. So when we are kids, we have taste buds that have kind of like an appetite, they're more aligned to sweet taste and not very much for bitter taste. That's why a kid can eat a bucket full of cotton candy, but not one slice of grapefruit. And it's vice versa for us as adults. I cannot handle that much cotton candy, but I can handle a bucket of coffee for sure. So it's our preference that changes over time because we are changing as we grow. Another good example is just the cereal aisle. If you go to the cereal aisle, you can see children's cereal and adult cereal. So children's cereal is just full of sugar, energy, color. And adult cereal is whole grains, and nuts, and fiber, and low calorie. because our taste preference change, but also our needs change.
 0:05:43
 And that's exactly the same for the pigs.

Morgan Hart
 0:05:45
 That's awesome.

Casey Bradley
 0:05:47
 I was going to say, has either one of you ever tasted sow's milk?

Morgan Hart
 0:05:50
 Sow's milk? I've tasted my own milk.

Mariana Menegat

I don't think so.

Mariana Menegat
 0:05:55
 I milked a lot of sows in the past for research, but maybe not voluntarily.

Casey Bradley

I wish we could work with the same people I did. Double dare you to taste it. I'm like, okay. I'm like, ugh, not my favorite. Just a fun note to include.

Morgan Hart

Even human breast milk is not as sweet as I would have initially thought it would have been. 

Mariana Menegat

Interesting.

Morgan Hart
 0:06:24
 It's very blunt. It's I don't say it's very bland, but it has a distinct taste to it. 

Casey Bradley

And I would say because you mentioned taste a lot, and I think the new technologies were even taking that that flavor mask or that flavor profile from milk. I think Land O'Lakes has done that. They have made feed additives to mimic that mother's milk taste.

Mariana Menegat

 That's interesting. 

Casey Bradley

To help for intake later on. And I think the mistakes we make, I see in the human nutrition, is that we don't change the calorie density of our diets soon enough for our children. And I would say, it's not my opinion, but it's a fact that, you know, the U.S. children's obesity rate is just skyrocketing. And you can see it on the store shelves that parents go for the easier meals and they don't realize the calorie differences or the types of nutrients.
 0:07:26
 And that's something else we also have to talk about in nutrition from a phase feeding is calories come in the form of protein, fat, sugar as well. And so understanding that dynamic is really important in our industry. 

Mariana Menegat

Yeah, that is true. And that's something, like you said, we can formulate the diet so many different ways because we just have the constraints and the things that we want to achieve, but then the mix of ingredients that we have available can make up for a completely different formula if I'm doing or you guys are doing it, right?
 0:08:05
 And same with our kids, I guess. You can, yeah, give them exactly the same amount of nutrients, but in very different ways. 

Morgan Hart

Yeah, I think texture of food plays into that quite well. Can you speak, I know, especially on the swine and animal agriculture side of things, we can do a lot of different things to the texture of feed to help animals eat it. Can you highlight a little bit more on how we do that and why we do that?

Mariana Menegat
 0:08:41
 Yeah, that's interesting because I think it also goes back to the nature of the pigs. They are very curious animals, especially when they are younger. I think after they are older, they might not care so much about the textures, but yeah, we can have a meal diet, a pelleted diet, or a crumble diet. Also, it helps us deliver the nutrients and ingredients that we want, but it also has a component that the pigs just find it more enticing. And the pig's curiosity is just exploring, you know, new things.
 0:09:20
 If you put in a toy, they're going to play. They might try different foods just because it looks or tastes or smells different, right? And one thing that might go with your team is that I really think it's interesting how pigs can be picky eaters when they're young, just like the kids. So we put them in the nursery, after they weaned, they look at the feed in the feeder, not gonna have it. But they don't think it's interesting, they don't want to share with their pen mates, just like they don't want to share with siblings. And then we get the food and then we put it in a feeding mat, we put it into a Red Bowl, and ta-da, then they start eating.
 0:10:06
 Because it is a different way of presenting the same food in just a different way, right? So they think that is different, it's enticing, and that's the same as we do with our kids. Like if you put their veggies in a colorful new cup, they might eat it compared to having the same veggies in their old boring regular plate, right?

Casey Bradley
 0:10:29
 Oh, same with the dinosaur chicken nuggets, right? It's a chicken nugget, but it's the same. Oh, I'll eat it because it's a dinosaur. 

Mariana Menegat

Exactly. So I think that is part of the young pigs' curiosity and they want to explore.

Morgan Hart

I experienced that same exact thing with my son and my daughter too is, you know, as they transition from breast milk to then you start introducing solid foods, you know, usually you do purees because they don't necessarily have any teeth yet or they're just exploring the different textures of foods, but when you puree everything, everything kind of has the same texture. Well, as soon as we transitioned to purees, for both my kids, we only fed purees for  pieces and whatnot. And once they figured out all the different textures and components of like actual real food and not purees, my son won't even touch purees anymore. 

Mariana Menegat

Interesting. 

Casey Bradley

0:11:41

Yeah, Arthur's not a big apple sauce fan either anymore. 

Mariana Menegat

Not even apple sauce? Oh, I thought that was always gonna be a big thing.

Morgan Hart
 0:11:47
 That'd be chunky apple sauce. But I think that sweetness too, like I've tried incorporating as many veggies as I can into a smoothie for my three-year-old who doesn't like to eat vegetables and she can taste it. If there's not enough apple juice or sugar or something in that smoothie that has a lot of veggies to offset that kind of bland veggie taste, she will not drink it.

Mariana Menegat
 0:12:13
 That's amazing. How can they take it? That's amazing. Oh, and that was one of the pros of having the puree because you can put it in, right? Yes. And they go through a phase that they just want to have exactly the same thing because it's comfortable, right? They just want to see the same texture. The taste can vary, but just something that they can trust.
 0:12:37
 And that's why sometimes it's easier for parents to just get something from the store because it will always taste the same. It will always look the same, so you know they're gonna eat it. But we still have to keep giving them all the different textures and flavors and exposure if they don't want to eat, at least they've seen it, right?

Morgan Hart
 0:12:58
 I think that's a good segue into, and I think you've highlighted a little bit on it, but how has your thought process as being a swine nutrition and as a mom, the philosophies that you implement in swine nutrition, how have you incorporated those philosophies into feeding why nutrition? Have you incorporated those philosophies into feeding your kids or feeding yourselves? How have those kind of changed and shifted?

Mariana Menegat
 0:13:23
 Oh, that's a good question. It's interesting because maybe we do some of those things without really realizing, but definitely after learning about nutrition going through my PhD, I really started just paying more attention of what is making up for this food. Can we find the same thing but with more protein and less sugar? I think those are the main things that I keep looking at every time that I'm trying to give him what he needs is, is it really nutritious?
 0:13:57
 Protein would be the number one thing and then if we can reduce sugar and salt, that would be the preference too. Yeah, I think giving him exposure to different texture, flavors, a variety of things and having him make the decision of what he wants to eat, you know, considering what we have available and not what's in the pantry, right? What we have in the table, like do you want to eat this or that that we just prepared. It's one of the things that we try to do. Yeah, I'm not sure what else I have been using from the pig world into Oliver’s. 

Casey Bradley

Did you breastfeed or formula feed? 

Mariana Menegat

I breastfed him, yes. And we were very lucky that I didn't have to make the transition from my milk to formula and then to cow's milk.
 0:14:58
 So we went straight from after he weaned and stopped nursing to have regular cow's milk. But that would definitely be some of the concepts that we were talking about, or like the nutrient density, we would probably see that in the formula. Then the formulas change because that also changes how much energy we're gonna have in the diet and all the different components of protein until you get to cow's milk, basically. 

Casey Bradley

Now, it's great because there's always that debate that you have to breastfeed or you're not a good mom in the mom world and it's whatever works for you because we know on the human side we have amazing nutritionists as well formulating formula for our kids and our foods but I think the biggest thing I'm blessed with I didn't ever have a picky eater but I think that goes back to what you said of exposing him at an early age to lots of different foods, textures, flavors. 

Mariana Menegat

Yeah, that's that's what we try to do and we don't have a picky eater at home too but it could be a variety of things like he may be just maybe hungry he eats very well.

Morgan Hart
 0:16:17
 Or they just want to eat french fries and chicken nuggets or we didn't necessarily have that but Emma would want just a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. She'd have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich two or three times a day, like multiple days in a row. I was like, okay, there's worse things you could be eating, but you know, whatever, you'll eat it. You know, sometimes it's just making sure that they eat something.

Mariana Menegat
 0:16:46
 Exactly, and you know that's not going to last forever. So you just have to have that mindset that, okay, that's what you need now. Let's go through this together. And yeah, she's not going to do that forever. So that's one way of keeping you sane too. Because if you're, and it kind of, that kind of lines up with our swine production. Sometimes you want things to be perfect. I can sit in front of my formulator and the perfect diet will come up.

0:17:16
 And then I get to the feed meal and nope, not really. We don't have this, we cannot make that, this is not going to go through our pellet mill or whatever. And then you have to go back and rethink, well, what's my plan B then? And that's kind of how it goes with kids. You think you're going to have all this elaborate meal plan and they, nope, not really, not having that in my mind. I'm going to plan B.

Morgan Hart
 0:17:40
 They eat the same five things every single day. And I think one, I don't know if this happens with pigs, it might, but I didn't realize how hangry kids get when, even if they've just eaten like an hour ago, especially for like young kids under five who are just, they don't stop. They just run and play all day long. Is that, I'm like, you just ate an hour ago. How can you be hungry again? And sometimes it, I've learned over the process, you know, potty training specifically taught me. This is that the dysregulation that they have within their body, you know, they can't tell you what's wrong.

0:18:30
 So usually it's the outbursts of crying or they can't make decisions or something. When they're not happy, they're projecting that and it's actually some sort of dysfunction. Specifically when we were potty training our three-year-old is she didn't necessarily know how to tell us that she needed to go to the bathroom, but we were able to recognize that when she started getting super ornery or upset or not being able to make decisions, that was her body telling us that she had some sort of dysregulation and that she needed to actually go to the bathroom. And so we, that helped us, you know, once we recognized that we're like, okay, let's go put you on the potty, we'll go, and then, you know, she eventually grew out of that and knows to go on her own now. But I think you can translate that to feeding your kid too because sometimes they don't necessarily know that their stomach pains might be hungry or that they're sick or that they have to go to the bathroom. And we had that the other day where she was just complaining that she was had a bellyache and wasn't feeling good and I was like let's try eating something and then 30 minutes after she was done eating she her complete attitude flipped around.

Mariana Menegat
 0:19:44
 That's amazing. 

Casey Bradley

But you talk about that how to see it in pigs, navel sucking is a great example of that. They're hungry but yet they're not smart enough to know that I can only get milk from my mom's underline versus my neighbors and as I say I've seen a lot of hangry sows.

Mariana Menegat
 0:20:02
 Yeah.

Casey Bradley
 0:20:03
 Grumpy.

Mariana Menegat
 0:20:04
 You can see some of the behaviors. 

Casey Bradley

Yeah. But I think, you know, we talked about young kids because we're there, but phase feeding Mariana would go into also sows and boars. That totally changes. It depending on pregnancy or not or lactation. When we literally, you know, pigs think the term pig is because they'll just eat anything and they'll eat a lot. And to me, that's a nursing sow with 14 piglets that, you know, they'll eat up to 20-some pounds. And I'm just like, I had one. I couldn't imagine 14 wanting to eat. And then not only that, they want to eat every hour. And so, yes, we do have hangry moms in the pig world too. 

Morgan Hart

Yes, and how your diets change from not even just your diet, but like you're super hungry at your beginning of your pregnancy and then things kind of taper off a little bit. And then you have the baby and then you start nursing and then it's like your appetite is almost as much as it was when you first found out you were pregnant because you have the supply and demand.

Casey Bradley
 0:21:13
 Yes.

Mariana Menegat
 0:21:14
 Yeah, I can see a lot of similarities. Even when we start the feeding program for ourselves in gilt, we start with a vitamin boost, right? We give them a vitamin supplement just like our doctor would recommend for when we're expecting to make sure they have a healthy pregnancy, how we control their weight gain too during pregnancy. We want to make sure they have all the nutrients, but not gain a lot of weight during pregnancy, because that could have an impact on child's delivery, and also just their overall health during pregnancy. And after they deliver, then yes, that's nutrient-packed food. And that's kind of what some of the Asian cultures would do too, you know, very rich recovery type foods that we don't have it as much here, not in my culture at least, but some friends would have a lot of that in Asian cultures, that let's make it very rich, very, kind of a healing type of diet after you have your baby. And that's what we try to do with sows. Just let them have as much food as they want, a lot of energy, a lot of protein, and let them milk and recover.

Morgan Hart
 0:22:34
 Pigs are monogastric, similar to cats and dogs. Are you familiar or could you explain a little bit how we phase feed for those type of companion animals and adjust? 

Casey Bradley

We phase feed and regulate amounts.

Mariana Menegat
 0:22:47
 Yeah, I thought a little bit about how we feed our pets, right? That's the experience that most people would have other than feeding themselves and their kids is like, how am I feeding my dog or my cat or any pet that you have? And we have a dog, so Gigi is our dog. And I just remember kind of going through the same steps as we do with the pig. When she was little, we gave her puppy food because she was very little. She was growing very fast and she needed like the small bite full of energy and protein. And then now that she's four years old, she's on adult food because we want to control her weight gain, control their stool consistency, their coat, and other things that we might want for the dog. But that's the three main ones that we want for Gigi. And she will be on the adult food until she probably goes to like a senior dog food type. That would be for whatever needs that she might have, but it's usually for like bone strength, or if she has needs for like heart health or kidney health, and you have diets tailored for those needs. I think that's very similar to what we would do in a pig's lifetime, just kind of go from more nutrient-dense diet to a diet to control weight and also restricted amounts, right?
 0:24:20
 We are not gonna feed them as much as they want all day. We feed them twice a day or once a day. And once they get to a stage where they have And so, I would recommend that you go out and see your vet and see if they're doing well. And I would recommend that you go out and see them twice a day or once a day. And once they get to a stage where they have different needs, sometimes, you know, if you think about you have a dog that is having puppies or, you know, other stages or conditions, and you have specific diets.
 0:24:53
 And same for, let's say, I have a hunting dog. we would probably need to supplement her with something or give her extra food when we go out on hunting. 

Casey Bradley

And I was going to say, the biggest mistake in nutrition is usually the application of nutrition and obesity in our pets, in our people, in myself, is because I overindulge, because I always say that from a nutrition perspective, you can eat anything in moderation. And I think that is also something in our world that we have to think of how nutrition is applied.

Mariana Menegat

0:25:20
 Yeah, that's a very good point. And some breeds of dogs are very good reminders of the that, that if you put a lot of food in front of them, they're going to eat it all. And cats can be like that sometimes. And then you have to go through all those stages of, you know, exercise and restrict intake and nobody's happy about that, right? 

Casey Bradley

No, not at all. I feel like I'm on a constant diet, but my diet changes when I'm on a good diet or a bad diet is more like it.

Mariana Menegat
 0:25:56
 And that's kind of what we tried to do with pigs by providing them something that it's constant, you know, it's the same, but they know what to expect every day and they know that's going to make them healthier, right? We're trying to keep them on a healthier stage.

Morgan Hart
 0:26:16
 So on the agricultural side, we do the phase feeding, you know, specific nutrients for that stage of production or gestating, lactating sow, but we make one feed for that for that pig to eat all day long, every single day while they're in that phase. If you could only design one diet for yourself, for Oliver, whoever, what would that look like?

Mariana Menegat
 0:26:43
 Oh, that's interesting. So one thing that we would all eat as a family.

Morgan Hart
 0:26:49
 Every single day. One meal that you have to eat every single day.

Mariana Menegat
 0:26:53
 That's a good one. I think it would have to be a pasta dish. I'm not sure exactly which one, but definitely a pasta dish with like veggies and meat. I don't know, maybe like mushrooms or shrimp, something like that, but definitely a pasta dish. It would make everyone happy here at home.

Morgan Hart
 0:27:14
 Casey, what about you? 

Casey Bradley

It's pizza, you know. 

Mariana Menegat

Pizza is a good one.

Casey Bradley

I mean, that goes with pasta, and you could switch the pasta out for pizza. Tomato sauce is where I'm getting my fruit in, and I get my veggies and my dairy. I get my whole grain, if I pick the right pizza, right?

Morgan Hart
 0:27:30
 Yep. I would agree along those lines, and I think another food in our house that I think we eat a lot is tacos. You know, you can have a variety of different proteins, you have your cheese, tomatoes, veggies, salsa, all sorts of different things, you know, you have some variety, but that's, I think that's something in our house that we would be able to eat.
 Yeah.
 0:27:53
 Thank you very much for joining us today. Normally, we leave our audience with an action item, a thought provoking comment, or an action for them to just kind of think about. And so this week I think our conversation on how we feed animals and the different preferences that humans, animals, kids all have, I think as humans we might be a little bit more in tune on this as our taste buds develop and whatnot, but your body kind of can tell you what what it's lacking or what it needs. Sometimes you're craving salts or sometimes you're craving sweets. Are you in tune with your body enough to recognizethose signs that you can pay attention and kind of listen to what your body needs? So that's our action item. Listen to your body. Can you recognize those signs and what your body's trying to tell you? Yeah. Anybody have anything else to add? 

Casey Bradley

That's sometimes, yeah, sometimes you do need that bowl of ice cream so eat it!

Morgan Hart
 0:28:52
 Or that bag of chips.

Casey Bradley

Well thank you so much, this was fun. 

Mariana Menegat

Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it and I had a lot of fun. Hope you have a good rest of your week I really appreciate it and I had a lot of fun. 

Morgan Hart

Hope you have a good rest of your week and thanks everyone for listening. Tune in next week!